Frances Melhop: Georgia, thank you so much for joining us and agreeing to this interview. We are meeting at a time when your activist textile artwork has recently been censored and removed from the Greek Consulate General in New York, in the final weeks of December 2023.

Can we start at the beginning and talk about where you grew up, your family history and how the increase in Greek femicide and the domestic violence issue came to your attention?

Georgia Lale: I was born and raised in Athens, in a municipality of Athens called Chaidari. I came to the United States in 2014 to do my Master's degree at the School of Visual Arts. My work, deals with the issues of inequality between the genders. And that of course includes the LGBTQ community.

My work focuses on the domestic struggles that women are dealing with in our society, and by that, I mean our society globally. We have a history in my family, - incidents of femicides. My grandfather's sister, Maria Lale, was murdered by her husband in the 1930s because she refused to sing at the wedding, and when they got home, he beat her up so hard that she died. He was never prosecuted because the community was like “oh, there's a child, and the child needs to be with someone.” He ended up giving this child up for adoption anyway, so this story really resonated with me.

In 2014, I did a performance in Athens, the performance was inside a hotel room, it was a female body performer, and she was lying on the bed. Holding a ceramic tongue sculpture between her legs, showing that women don't have the freedom of expression when it comes to many issues, but this for the specific piece was about their sexual rights and desires. During the pandemic, there was an increase of domestic violence and femicides globally, and in Greece.

FM: And being away you are perhaps more able to talk about it…?

GL: Yes, I feel that me being in New York City gives me an advantage to talk about things that are happening in Greece. I have the advantage of being heard and having an audience both in the United States and in Greece.

In 2021, the femicide of Caroline Crouch got a lot of attention in the media in Greece.

What happened is that the husband murdered his wife, strangling her on their bed. Their six-month-old baby was also on the bed. He then tortured and killed their dog. He set up this whole thing as if it was a break-in, and that he was also a victim. For weeks he went around on media weeping and saying how devastated he was for what happened to his wife.

Eventually, the police found out that he was the murderer. This story, really, was very shocking to me. This is when I turned my attention to working with bedsheets.

Usually for my work, I start with a performance, and then it manifests itself into fabric sculptures. In 2021, a few months after the Crouch murder had happened, I went to Greece and I did an open call. I asked women to give me their bedsheets, then I did a performance at the A.Antonopoulou Art gallery. Afterwards I took the bedsheets with me to the United States, and made the Greek flag out of them.

FM: Did the people who donated the bedsheets want to remain anonymous? How did you make the open call?

GL: Through social media. Around ten women gave their bedsheets. Women that I didn't know called me, and wanted to donate their bedsheets. I didn't get to meet those women. Actually, one of them came to the performance, and she had sent me ten bedsheets, but she chose not to introduce herself. Other women mailed me their bedsheets from different parts of Greece, so they weren't in Athens for the performance.

FM: Did any of them share any stories?

GL: Some of them shared stories like, “Oh, those specific bedsheets are very precious because those are the bedsheets that I had since I got married,” things like that.

Maria Sorenson: I think it's a very courageous thing to do, to make contact through social media and go public in that way when they don't know you, and share such a personal story with a stranger. I think it's amazing that these women were that open to the idea.

 

FM: If we exclude COVID-19 time, what do you think are the underlying problems that are causing the increase in femicide in Greece as opposed to other European countries?

GL: It's a rising phenomenon globally, but statistically Greece is the country with the higher numbers of domestic abuse and femicide cases per capita in Europe. I think it has to do with the fact that there's no social structure to support those women. In many cases, women go to the police, and the police tell them, “There's nothing we can do. Go to a safe place.” There are no facilities where those women can stay over for the night, or for a while until they're safe. They advise them to go stay with their family. But the family is not a safe place because the abuser can find them there. There was one case in 2022 where the woman made it to the police to report the abuse, and the police drove her back home where she was murdered by her husband that same night.

MS: So, are you saying that there are no domestic shelters there? There is no place for them to stay outside of the family? No institutions as such?

GL: There are non-profit organisations that offer some support but no government-organised shelters. A lot of women that have been experiencing domestic abuse have contacted me and they’ve told me that there is no social support. There are no shelters. There are emergency lines they told me, but when they called those emergency lines, they were told “Oh, you have to get a lawyer,” or a woman trying to join a support group for women that have experienced domestic violence, and they tell them, “Oh, but you're divorced already. You do not qualify for the support group.” This same woman tried to get mental support for her child, who is still interacting with the abuser. But they didn't follow up. She had to call them many times. They weren't picking up the phone.

She eventually gave up.

MS: Are there any actual laws that can hold an abuser accountable? Or is there no way to prove the actual abuse that is happening?

GL: Legally, in many cases, it's very difficult to prove that the domestic abuse actually happens. If it's physical abuse, sometimes it's easier to prove, but if it's psychological and emotional abuse, it's impossible to prove it. A lot of the women managed to get away from their abuser, but then the abuser finds ways to abuse them through the legal system, by dragging them from courthouse to courthouse, and by using the children for psychological warfare.

The term femicide is not even legally established in Greece. So legally, those femicides are just considered murders, so they are not counted as a separate phenomenon.

FM: Can you talk more about the Neighborhood Guilt quilt, and the flag artwork?

GL: I made the flag in 2021, and then I started the Neighborhood Guilt piece in January 2023, and I finished it in December 2023, right before the exhibition.

FM: How did the exhibition come about?

GL: The Consul General of Greece in New York was approached by a group of Greek American artists and curators. They made the proposal to make bi-monthly exhibitions in the Consulate showing the work of Greek artists that live and/or work in the United States. I was the first artist that they invited, and I immediately proposed to show two works. The

Greek flag made of women’s bed sheets, and the Neighborhood Guilt quilt.

FM: What happened and why was the flag removed from the consulate?

The exhibition was called Neighborhood Guilt. The pieces were installed, and the Consul was very supportive of the idea. He really liked the social message of it, he thought it was very important to make a statement as an official government organisation about the situation.

And then right before the exhibition, I heard that there was some article raising concerns about the exhibition and specifically about the Greek flag, that it was disrespectful towards the national symbol, from a Greek American newspaper that is published in New York City. It's called the National Herald, and to be honest with you, I didn't pay attention to it. The opening happened on December 15, and over 200 people came. People from the Greek community, but also people from the New York City art scene. But then on Saturday, December 16, a far-right member of the Greek Parliament, Natsios, brought a copy of my flag piece to the parliament and said that it is disgraceful that the flag is being portrayed with pink colours. Specifically, he said that the flag is only allowed to be painted red by the blood of the national (male) heroes. This happened on Saturday, and then the whole situation started getting the attention of the public and the press. Then on Monday, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Giorgos Gerapetritis, asked for the flag piece to come down from the exhibition. I was not informed by the Consulate until Tuesday evening, when they finally returned my calls. When, I went there the piece was off the wall already and it was given to me in a plastic trash bag.

I don't know where the piece spent the night and to be receiving it like that was very shocking. Of course, after this it was out of the question for me to leave the other piece in the exhibition, so I took down the Neighbourhood Guilt quilt as well.

FM: Many artists over the years have used their flag, or reinterpreted their flag to create meaning. Have these reactions added to or subtracted from your motivation to create activist work?

GL: It’s not really an issue of motivation, this is who I am and that cannot change. When I come up with the idea of a piece, it's so pressing that I have to do it. A lot of my work is conceptual, and it uses simple materials and simple ideas that come to me as an epiphany. Sometimes I think to myself, oh, it was right there in front of my eyes for two years and why haven't I thought of it before? So, it comes to me very naturally, and then I just have to make it, in an urgent kind of feeling.

FM: Can I ask you what the reactions were from the Consulate? What was the general feeling of the people there?

GL: When I went to take the piece, the people were very respectful and shocked that they were asked by the government to take down the work. They were still telling me that they really appreciate the work, and its meaning. But they’re working for the government. They cannot not follow the government orders and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs orders. But they were also shocked and disappointed that this happened.

 

FM: Did you expect to have this sort of reaction in America?

GL: No, I didn't expect that. Not just in America, but in Greece, too. I didn't expect that the Greek government would give weight to something that a far-right politician said. Because if Natsiou complained, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs did not follow up, it would have been just another extreme person saying something crazy. But now the government was trying to please or satisfy this far-right minority. This is all very concerning to me. They censored a piece that speaks about domestic violence and femicides, made by a woman. They're showing their power over the people that speak about those issues - sending a message to all those women who live in those environments that we control the narrative. You don't have the power, you cannot speak. We don't even allow creatives to speak about what you're going through.

FM: Earlier when we were talking, you mentioned that the whole situation has become a performance piece, which automatically critiques the Greek minister who instigated this whole artwork removal. Could you elaborate on this?

GL: Yes, it has become an interactive piece, like a social political performance. It started with me putting up the piece. It's an action. Then all these political figures coming into play deciding to take the piece down. Then you have the reaction of the public. The flag piece came down off the wall, but it has come up on all of our social media feeds, and it was widely published in newspapers, talked about on radio programs and shown in news channels. It was like a domino effect, but I know that no matter how devastating it was for me at that moment to go and take down a work in an exhibition only four days after the opening, it was really good for the meaning of the work.

FM: It has drawn a lot more attention.

GL: Yes, and one of my public comments on the situation was that those women that experienced domestic abuse and have lost their lives at the hands of the people that they love, (who supposedly love them), are the heroines of our nation—and of any nation in the fight for life and freedom.

Because of what happened to my work, because of the Minister of Foreign Affairs censoring my piece, the media in Greece were talking about the issue for the first time without having lost another woman - without having another femicide.

They do speak about the issue, but usually only after another femicide, after the loss of yet another woman.

Georgia Lale is a Greek-born American visual artist and cancer fighter based in Brooklyn. Through their multidisciplinary practice, Lale explores the human body’s blueprint on the social and political realm of modern society and advocates for accessible healthcare and gender equality. They received their MFA from the School of Visual Arts, NYC (2016) as a Basil and Elise Goulandris Foundation scholar and their BFA from the Athens School of Fine Arts, Greece (2013).

Their work has been featured in major art festivals, such as the Art in Odd Places, NYC (2022), the Venice International Performance Art Week, Italy (2020) and the Brussels Nuit Blanche Festival, Belgium (2016). Lale’s work has been exhibited at A.I.R. Gallery Biennial (2023), Border Project Space (solo show 2022), Collar Works (2021), Smack Mellon (2018) and Shiva Gallery (2018), among others. They have participated at academic conferences organized by the Dedalus Foundation, the MoMA Archives, the Yale History of Art Modernist Forum and the Yale School of Management. Their #OrangeVest performance was presented at the Greek Pavilion of the 15th Venice Biennale of Architecture (2016). Their solo show “Neighborhood Guilt” at the Consulate General of Greece in NY (2023), was censored by the Greek Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Frances Melhop is a visual artist, curator, and gallery director, born in Christchurch, New Zealand, living and working at Lake Tahoe, Nevada.
She works in tactile mediums such as photography, printmaking, hand embroidery, sculpture and oil paint exploring the tensions between the virtual and physical ways we experience the world. Her focus is on human presence and absence in our screen and material lives, along with imperfection and evidence of the human hand.

Melhop has been exhibited in solo and group exhibitions worldwide. Awards include, University of Nevada, Reno, Outstanding Artist Award, 2019, NNDA Innovator of the Year 2014, Luerzers Archive World’s Best Photographers 2009/2010. In 2020 she opened Melhop Gallery °7077, at Lake Tahoe, Nevada, representing 12 national and international artists. She also curates themed group shows with invited exceptional artists.

Maria Sorensen is an independent art curator, writer and researcher. Combining her experience of growing up in an authoritarian country with her background in Film and Visual Arts , her curatorial practice focuses on highlighting important societal issues using strong and powerful artistic language. She writes for London-based Index on Censorship and has previously worked for various film channels curating a World Cinema program. Having lived and worked in London, Copenhagen and Tokyo she is currently based in Switzerland and holds a postgraduate degree in Curating from Zurich University of Arts.