Ahmad Mansour, talk in Berlin, Photo: Dorothee Richter

Dorothee Richter: Ahmad Mansour, you are currently leading an initiative that supports democracy and prevents extremism. Can you tell me what the initiative is working on at the moment?

Ahmad Mansour: We run various projects focused on prevention work that promotes democracy and combats extremism. Most of our work is based on theatre pedagogy using role-playing methods. We engage in eye-level dialogues with young people, present them with alternatives and provide food for thought. Our work takes place in schools, asylum shelters, welcome classes and prisons. Soon, we also plan to expand our democracy-promotion efforts into the digital realm – specifically on social media, where propaganda is spread and people are exposed to anti-democratic content. We want to fight for every soul – for democracy and for human rights.

Dorothee: Could you please describe where you grew up and what images and ideas influenced you?

Ahmad: I grew up in an Arab village in the heart of Israel, about thirty kilometres from Tel Aviv. The village was shaped by agriculture; my parents were simple labourers and my grandparents were farmers. I grew up in a multi-generational household – my grandparents lived upstairs and we lived downstairs. We were a big family: I have four siblings. My childhood was marked by hard work and stories of war – the War of Independence and the conflicts between the Arab countries and Israel, which my family had experienced first-hand.

I did well in school, but as a child I had very few toys and, later on, hardly any opportunities to go out or have fun. I read a lot and immersed myself in books. At the age of 13, due to bullying, anxiety about the future, and a declining sense of social connection, I became radicalised. I was directly approached at the time by an imam and remained involved with an Islamist group until I was about nineteen. I spent a lot of time in mosques, took Islamic lessons, and was frequently involved in various group activities – including Islamic concerts, lectures and more.

Dorothee: When did you start to see things differently?

Ahmad: When I began studying in Tel Aviv, I suddenly came into contact with my ‘enemies’ – or rather, the people I had previously considered my enemies: the Jews. Life in Tel Aviv, a Western-oriented party city, along with the books I read outside of theology (I studied psychology and had to read Freud, Nietzsche and Machiavelli), sparked my curiosity and made me reflect. But above all, two factors led me to start seeing things differently: first, the direct contact with people on the ground – those I had once seen as enemies, who quickly became my friends. Their outlook on life and the feeling of belonging to this group had a deep impact on me. Second, my professors, who constantly encouraged us to think critically and to form our own opinions. All of this together fundamentally changed the way I saw the world.

Dorothee: Could you give some numbers – how many Arab-Israeli Palestinians live in Israel and how many in Gaza (controlled by Hamas) and how many in the West Bank (with Fatah as an important power in the region)?

Ahmad: There are 2.14 million people living in Gaza, and about 3.4 million people in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. The residents there either hold Israeli citizenship or have a different legal status. Around two million Arabs live in Israel, making up approximately 20% of the country’s population. Most of them are Muslims, along with other minority groups such as Druze and, notably, Christians.

Dorothee: What did you study, and how was your attitude changed by your experiences?

Ahmad: In Israel, I began studying nursing science for one year at Tel Aviv University. After that, I switched to psychology, sociology and anthropology. Later, in Germany, I completed a diploma in clinical and organisational psychology at Humboldt-Universität in Berlin. The time I spent studying psychology in Tel Aviv had a particularly strong impact on me. It was there that I began to see things very differently and developed a completely new way of thinking. I gained new ways of reflecting – especially about my inner self, my personal development and my childhood. This critical perspective helped me to see things differently and, above all, to break free from Islamist ideologies and patriarchal structures.

Studying in Germany was more challenging in terms of integration within the university itself, especially compared to Tel Aviv. Still, I believe that clinical psychology, my self-observations and the experience of encountering a new environment – a new language and a new culture – all shaped me deeply. It allowed me to see things from new angles and perhaps reach a new level of reflection, particularly regarding my culture, my religion, the way I was raised, and my relationship with my parents and with people in Israel – especially in my small village.

Dorothee: Do you know how many Arab-Israeli Palestinians study at Tel Aviv University of Engineering?

Ahmad: According to the most recent data from the 2020/21 academic year, around 460 Arab-Israeli Palestinians were studying at the Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science at Tel Aviv University of Engineering. That number has likely increased slightly since then. Many are also enrolled at other universities – in Jerusalem, Be’er Sheva, at the Technion in Haifa – as well as at numerous colleges across Israel, which have a status comparable to community colleges in the United States. There are also Arab Israelis who go to Europe to study, others to Jordan, and in recent years even to the West Bank, particularly if they are not admitted to universities in Israel. This is a positive development. Arab Israelis are now firmly established in the labour market – not only in basic jobs but also in academic positions. No hospital in Israel could function without Arab doctors, nurses and healthcare workers. Pharmacy is also a particularly popular field of study among Arab Israelis.

Dorothee: Do Palestinians in Lebanon have the same civil rights as other citizens living there?

Ahmad: No, Palestinians in Lebanon do not have the same rights – nor do they in Syria. They are treated as second-class citizens, are not granted citizenship and are barred from many professions under the justification that they are refugees. Yet, if they do receive citizenship, they lose their right of return. The problem is that the refugee status is being passed down to the fourth and fifth generations. Entire generations grow up learning to live in poverty and dependency on aid organisations, without ever truly having the chance to arrive or become part of the society around them.

Dorothee: When did you go to Germany? How did this influence your attitude?

Ahmad: Physically, I arrived in Germany in 2004. I first learned the language, then started studying, and from 2007 onwards, I began working and earning my living here. But emotionally, I only truly arrived when I felt like I was part of this society. This was not a momentary experience but a process.

My wife, who is German, has been a huge help in making me feel part of this society – being in a partnership with a German person supported me massively. Also, the opportunities I received to become a co-creator and have influence in this society as a migrant – to learn the language, find work and succeed – these were all factors that enabled me to develop an emotional connection to this society. One moment that helped me tremendously to arrive and stop feeling like a stranger was my experience in a shared students’ apartment in early 2007, when I first encountered Germans on an equal footing. We celebrated parties together, talked about worries and politics, laughed and cried together, and developed friendships.

I believe integration is only truly successful when people gain emotional access and no longer feel like strangers, especially when they internalise that the fundamental values of this society represent an opportunity, not a threat. For someone coming from a patriarchal society and family, who was partly socialised in Islamist contexts, this was a process. I am very grateful to have met people in Germany who enabled me to feel German and become part of this society.

Dorothee: How difficult is it for you to have a different worldview to that of your family in Israel/Palestine?

Ahmad: It has always been difficult, especially when I moved to Tel Aviv, started working in Israel and developed a different political stance. When I decided to go to Germany, I didn’t follow the simple, prescribed path: marrying at 26, building a house, living next to my parents, choosing a wife from the village. But the hardest part, of course, was marrying a German woman and raising my child with different methods and values.

The situation after 7 October 2023 was incredibly difficult for me. My parents adopted an extremely pro-Palestinian stance, were angry at Israel and, above all, they don’t understand my perspective – not the German perspective, not my personal perspective, not my attempt to take a completely different path than my parents, who have spent their whole lives waiting for a victory that will never come.

I want to do things differently – as a German, as a Muslim, as an Israeli. I want to show empathy to Jews and not be on the wrong side of history: I do not want to relativise Hamas terror, nor question Israel’s right to exist, but rather seek other ways. This has become extremely intense and difficult, making a normal relationship between me and my parents nearly impossible, let alone between me and the people in my village or those I grew up with. But that is the price you pay when you come from a patriarchal family and still want to be autonomous and develop your own views. I’m not saying I’m right; I’m just saying this is my position, and at forty-eight years old, I want to be able to express it without negative consequences and without being crushed by people who should actually love me.

Dorothee: What was your motivation for founding the Mansour–Initiative?

Ahmad: MIND prevention was an attempt to carry out a completely different kind of prevention work – not one that excuses, ‘tabooises’ or downplays these issues, or treats migrants like helpless, pampered pets. Rather, it is a prevention approach that is capable of speaking very clearly about Israel-related antisemitism, Islamism, hostility to democracy, and patriarchal structures. It aims to reach people by taking them seriously – not by coddling or patronising them, but by holding them accountable and expecting them to think critically and reflect on their own positions and perspectives.

This method and approach have been very successful in every one of our projects, but unfortunately – especially from the left-wing spectrum – it has faced massive opposition. One common claim is that Islamism is a product of discrimination. We oppose this one-sided view of the issue. As a result, our work is rejected in certain circles and we are sometimes accused of being racist when we address certain topics in our own way and speak about them directly.

Dorothee: You mentioned that it is difficult to bring in food and other urgently needed support for the civilians, because Hamas would bring everything under their control and sell the auxiliary goods. So the problem arises of feeding into the military equipment of Hamas as soon as one sends in food and housing for people?

Ahmad: Unfortunately, yes – but this is a problem that must be addressed at an international level. The fact that humanitarian aid is managed and controlled by Hamas, which embezzles aid goods and uses the funds generated to finance its terrorism and secure its continued existence, is a major issue. On the other hand, uninvolved civilians must have access to humanitarian aid – and this must happen without Hamas acting as an intermediary.

Dorothee: What do you see as a possibility for the future? How could a democratic regime be found and installed?

Ahmad: A democratic regime cannot simply emerge on its own. It is a long process and a long path toward reconciliation, which requires re-education and cooperation among all Western countries, Israel and moderate Arab states with the Palestinians. This can only happen once Hamas has been dismantled.

Dorothee: I heard you and your wife’s podcast about a German-Arab marriage. It was very funny and at the same time it also showed the difficulties – for example, the security measures your family has to live with were mentioned two or three times. It takes courage to speak out like you do. Would you like to comment on the more light-hearted podcast and the seriousness of the situation?

Ahmad: Humour is always good medicine for difficult situations. The idea for the podcast came about because the binational challenge of a German-Arab marriage also brings many funny moments in everyday life. We simply wanted to be an inspiration for others in similar situations. Even though there are strong cultural differences, love and respect are fundamental and can solve many problems.

We started before 7 October 2023 and consciously decided to stop at some point. The situation has unfortunately become much more difficult for us since then. Nevertheless, I see the positive side: this country does everything to ensure that we can continue to express our opinions without intimidation or threats.

Ahmad Mansour is an Israeli-German psychologist and author of Arab-Palestinian origin. Born in Tira, close to Kafar Saba in the Triangle, Israel, in 1976, he has lived in Germany since 2004 and has held German citizenship since 2017. Mansour works on projects and initiatives against radicalisation, oppression in the name of honour, and antisemitism in the Islamic community. He grew up in a non-practising Muslim family. During his school years, he came into contact with a fundamentalist imam, and this almost led to him becoming an Islamist. Mansour’s bachelor’s degree in psychology (1996–99) at the Academic College of Tel Aviv-Yaffo helped him to break away from Islamism. After witnessing an attack, he went to Germany in 2004 and continued his psychology studies at Humboldt-Universität in Berlin in 2005; he received his diploma in 2009. Since 2015, Mansour has worked as a research associate at the Center for Democratic Culture in Berlin and as an advisory programme director at the European Foundation for Democracy in Brussels. His work focuses on Salafism, antisemitism, and psychosocial issues and problems among migrants of Muslim origin. From 2007 to 2016, he was group leader of the Berlin-based project Heroes, which actively opposes all “oppression in the name of honour”. From 2012 to 2014, Mansour was a participant in the German Islam Conference. Since 2017, he has been Managing Director of MIND prevention, a Berlin-based initiative for the promotion of democracy and prevention of extremism.

Dorothee Richter, PhD, is Professor in Contemporary Curating at the University of Reading, UK, where she directs the PhD in Practice in Curating programme. She previously served as head of the Postgraduate Programme in Curating (CAS/MAS) at Zurich University of the Arts (ZHdK), Switzerland. Richter has worked extensively as a curator: she initiated the Curating Degree Zero Archive and was artistic director at Künstlerhaus Bremen, where she curated various symposia on feminist issues in contemporary arts, as well as an archive on feminist practices entitled Materialien/Materials. Together with Ronald Kolb, Richter directed a film on Fluxus: Flux Us Now, Fluxus Explored with a Camera. Her most recent project was Into the Rhythm: From Score to Contact Zone, a collaborative exhibition at the ARKO Art Center, Seoul, in 2024. This project was co-curated by OnCurating (Dorothee Richter, Ronald Kolb) and ARKO (curator Haena Noh, producer Haebin Lee). Richter is Executive Editor and Editor-in-Chief of OnCurating.org, and recently founded the OnCurating Academy Berlin.